Brakes again...sorry!!!

All aspects of tuning,modification and repairs to the BX 16valve.
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Timmo
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Post by Timmo » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:54 am

Simran,
whats the need to have the disc bolted to the hub and then the wheel bolted to the disc?? only seen that on wheels where they dont match the offset and are on converting spacers????
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Simran
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Post by Simran » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:17 am

Thats exactly why they're used. The wheels are the right PCD but theyre off a ford escort so have wrong offset. I wasnt keen on using alloy spacers and long bolts, i know its perfectly safe but i just dont like the idea of those weedy looking hollow spacers, id always have it on the back of my mind. These are chunky solid steel and make mounting the wheels on a much easier affair. They add a bit of weight but i dont mind.

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:11 am

cheers simran, i'm going for the weedy thick alloy spacer option with longer bolts myself, spacers where pretty cheap. I have a full set of four, so might have to investigate bringing the rear arch out even further!


Think i might have located a set of calipers, just waiting for a price. Do they just bolt in as normal with the extra spacers?
Last edited by Vanny on Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Simran
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Post by Simran » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:59 am

Yep, all that is needed is those washers/spacers. If i remember right they need to be about 8-9mm thick. Other than that the bolt holes are identical, think i needed some longer or shorter bolts (cant remember which)because i didnt get the ones that come with the calipers and my old ones wouldnt fit (either too long or too short) The handbrake cable and brake lines fit back on in virtually the same positions so nothing needs to be altered there. Once you've offered them up, you'll clearly see where you'll need the spacers and what bolts you will need.

If you need any more pictures from inside the wheelarch of the spacers let me know and i can take some more.

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:02 pm

You should probably go ahead and get me the pics tbh.
I'll probably get some shims made up to a precise size at my uncles place, want me to run you off some too? It's always easier to make more than less if you see what i mean.

I'll probably get some high tensile bolts at the same time from Lloyd and Jones, again i can pick some up at the same time so long as you are in no rush!

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Simran
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Post by Simran » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:36 pm

Im off out in half an hour to donnington park for the weekend to watch motogp so ill be away from the car but when i get back i'll whip a wheel off and get you some more photos. I managed to get some bolts from my local little motor factor but the spacers might be usefull. Ill get the verniers out and measure the thickness ive used with washers and compare it to what you measure to see where we're at.

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:00 pm

Good news, scored me a set of Activa brakes today, inclusive of pads discs, bolts and removal from donor for £50! Not bad me thinks. The pads and discs are more for alignment and fitting than actual use, but they look in pretty fine fettle.

So hopefully in the near future I will create a guide/how to, with pictures, on uprating the brakes to bigger discs and pads. I also have access to EBC products for not a lot of money so might as well go the whole hog since i will need to replace the pads and discs.

Will make up some shims this weekend if i manage to figure out the size needed.

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Post by Vanny » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:28 pm

Well this evening i thought i'd go do some more clearing of the garage, which turned very rapidly into having a trial run of fitting the discs to a spare hub i had flatoing around.

these are the calipers i have;

Image

Image

I believe they are Activa MK2? Still i think they are 283mm. Need a damn good clean and have a bit of corrosion, but then who cares? I might clean them and paint them, but probably not!

So fitting, i learned from Simrans mistake? and made sure i obtained the bolts with the calipers. T55 headed but the same thread as those on the BX regular. The holes in my hub where very corroded, i havent a suitable tap to hand so padded out the bolt with a washer to take up the slack, you can see it here;

Image

The Disc is held on with a couple of wheel bolts, again i needed spacers to hold the damn thing flat (usually there would be a wheel to make up the gap).

Image

Now here lies the problem, outside from the hub the disc has a decent amount of clearance from the caliper housing;

Image

But from the inside of the hub, the disc is fouling the caliper, it is also fouling the hub carrier as well;

Image

So it strikes me that i need to bring the whole disc out by about 2mm, which will also screw with my offset. I am planning on bringing the front wheel out by 20mm or so (partly to clear the caliper and partly to stop the alloy fouling both the handbrake and the inner wheel arch.

So there you have it, i'm going to have to machine up a couple of spacers to bring the whole brake disc out a few mm. Fortunately as i'm adding wheel spacers anyway i will be able to spec new bolt lengths to suit, or get really keen and fit studs!

Where have you put spacers Simran? Can you refresh me on what donor your calipers came from?

(appologies for the pics not being as neat and tidy as Mandics!)

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Timmo
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Post by Timmo » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:16 pm

blimey Vanny, there really isnt a lot of room there!!!

a really good how to would be great as can see it becoming a popular mod!!
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Simran
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Post by Simran » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:13 pm

Hmm, something doesnt seem right there Vanny. I have a feeling those discs arent the right ones because i bought a set for my dad a while back which were labelled as a being for an activa, but when we got them home realised they were peugeot offset which was slightly different, yet you got your whole brake setup complete so obviosuly they ARE the right discs. The spacers i have are roughly 8-9mm and simply go between the hub and caliper where the mounting bolts go through, see extremely non technical paint drawing below:
(was raining and didnt want to go outside to take wheels off :lol: )

Image

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Simran
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Post by Simran » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:17 pm

I think ive just realised where you're going wrong. Instead of spacing the disc out, you need to do what ive done and space the caliper out, you'll notice spacing it out moves it further inboard, which by the looks of your photos is what you need to do. That should cure all your problems in one go, it will move the calipers away from the wheels and also sort out the offset with the disc without altering the offset of your wheels. check it all with the pads in place so that the sliding section of the caliper is in its righ place. If you're planning on using your 17 inch wheelsyou'll have no clearance issues at all, ive got 16s on with loads of room to spare and the calipers are under 7 inch wide 15s when on the original activa anyway.

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:21 am

erm, yeah but no. The disc is fouling the hub carrier! so the only option is to move the disc away from the hub and thus off the carrier. Otherwise yes, sending the caliper the otherway would work to correct the fouling of the disc on the caliper.

I'm wondering if i need to go out and measure up the disc, compare width and diameter to that list you posted.

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:27 am

Just looking at the discs sheet you posted Simran, and the Mk2 activa discs are 288mm and 28mm rather than 283mm and 26mm. So i guess there is a good chance the calipers are different as well.

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Post by Simran » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:58 am

The calipers you have are identical to mine so they are mk1 activa, but your discs look much larger than mine in all dimensions which makes me think they are the larger 288mm ones and as far as i knew they werent compatible with the 283mm calipers, which is strange if they came as a set from a car. The 288mm calipers are much larger. Before you go spacing the discs out, check you have the right ones because it may just be a simple case of using the right discs, mine are no where near as close to the hub as shown in your pics.

Its dry outside today, i will go and do some measuring to see where the differences are in our setups.

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:40 am

THanks for your help Simran.

The donor car was a t-reg 1999 model as here;
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