problems with ecu

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Toddman
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ecu

Post by Toddman » Thu May 14, 2009 5:39 pm

I can see I am going to have to bring my paperwork out of the shed and rifle through it to find my ecu data.

Off the top of my head I am thinking the 3.1 utilises a MAP sensor and is the system used on the early ZX Volcane etc.

I thought the vakver only used the 4.1 and 1.3 from factory ??

The quick bit of research I carried out ;ead me to beleive that the ecu currently fitted had the part number denoting an 8v Pug using a 1.3 system so in an ideal world plugging in the 354 ecu which I beleive is a 1.3 unit should have ben a step in the right direction.

I am hopefull that some visual help will be usefull.

Cheers
Luke
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1989 BX 16valve White 70k almost up to scratch

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Viktor
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Post by Viktor » Thu May 14, 2009 6:00 pm

i can't fit 119/140 ecu because i have m1.3 3row slot in my car . it can't be mp3.1. the best alternative as i know is 158 but i allredy bought 354 that should work fine but it doesnt for some reson ...
bx 1988 12. 1.9l gti 16v

prm
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Post by prm » Thu May 14, 2009 6:46 pm

This is getting slightly confusing .com .com, with Viktor’s ECU numbers, engine set-up, age and P1/P2.

The numbers just don’t tie-up with a valver in my opinion.

Correct me if I’m wrong, I have never seen a P1/P2 ??, @ 88, with a 3 row ECU plug and a CAT as OE. Differing variants may have been available outside the UK.

I can only suggest. If possible, details and Bosch part numbers of all engine management components, to possibly identify a suitable ECU.

Regards

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Thu May 14, 2009 8:35 pm

Yeah i havent helped getting 3.1 and 1.3 back to front. This is my understanding (checked and double checked);

Ph1 - 2 Row ECU, Motronic 4.1, ECU numbers 119 and 140
Ph1/Ph2- (early Ph2's mind, NOT in Sweeden or Norway and NOT cat equipt) 2 Row ECU, Motronic 4.1, ECU numbers 119
Ph2 - 3 Row ECU, Motronic 1.3, ECU number 354, with or without CAT.

Victor is right that the 3 row system is only for 1.3 (see i got confused again), however a car of this age should not have this system, it should be the earlier 4.1 2row system. I suspect that the car has had a mid life engine and control change?

Either way a 354 3row ecu should work with a 3row wiring loom. Have you checked all the conections and wires them selves?

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Toddman
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confused?

Post by Toddman » Thu May 14, 2009 8:49 pm

Vanny wrote:Yeah i havent helped getting 3.1 and 1.3 back to front. This is my understanding (checked and double checked);

Ph1 - 2 Row ECU, Motronic 4.1, ECU numbers 119 and 140
Ph1/Ph2- (early Ph2's mind, NOT in Sweeden or Norway and NOT cat equipt) 2 Row ECU, Motronic 4.1, ECU numbers 119
Ph2 - 3 Row ECU, Motronic 1.3, ECU number 354, with or without CAT.

Victor is right that the 3 row system is only for 1.3 (see i got confused again), however a car of this age should not have this system, it should be the earlier 4.1 2row system. I suspect that the car has had a mid life engine and control change?

Either way a 354 3row ecu should work with a 3row wiring loom. Have you checked all the conections and wires them selves?
I agree with that Vanny and I also thought the 354 ecu would be the answer to his problems.

I think the engine bay pictures will prove very beneficial, I wonder if they will show a coilpack or something even more bizarre.

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Luke
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1989 BX 16valve White 70k almost up to scratch

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thanuttiscotsman
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Post by thanuttiscotsman » Fri May 15, 2009 1:20 am

hi viktor, to answer your previous question, from what i remember if you unplug the idle control valve with the car running the engine will stop. so if you can unplug your idle valve with it running and it makes no change to the engine that would suggest to me that the valve isnt doing anything.

try something for me, remove one of the rubber pipes from the idle control valve and try starting the engine, if the engine starts and runs up to a high idle rpm like around 3000-5000 rpm then the ecu works and the valve is fecked, if there is no change to how it runs then the problem is probably elsewhere.

by the way this is the only citro ecu info i have to hand, it lists car models years, ecu numbers and motronic systems etc, and as i have said before a 16v that early like 88 would not have come out the factory with a 3 row ecu as my data says citroen weren't using 3 row ecu's in valvers in 88 thats why i think its possible the car has had problems in the past and as the guy says its hard to get bits there, maybe someone couldnt find a replacement ecu so switched the ecu and loom to 3 row to get it working again! makes sense, anyways see here for the ecu info....

http://www.atpelectronics.co.uk/Catalogue/citroen.htm

cheers rossco
1989 BX 16v ph1 Big project chipped, k+N, scorpion s/s, weber throttle body, Nitrous injection

1990 BX 16v ph2 (now scrapped)

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Post by prm » Fri May 15, 2009 8:47 pm

Viktor, after some searching through my pile of papers and Bosch technical.

I don’t think a 354 ECU is going to work with your 88 valver without some modification to the wiring.

The only 3 row, M 1.3 ECU’s I could find that would possibly tie-up with BX 16v engine management components, is the 158, or, 161 up to 7.91, from a Peugeot 405 Mi 16 with a DFW engine.

A comparison list, 405 and BX as a general guide

405 ........................ BX 16v, pre 11.1989

Injector.....762................762
AFM..........202 .............. 202
CTS..........026 ...............026
TPS...........327 ............. 327
CAS...........043 .............. 043
Idle valve..516 ...............516

This is where it gets a little tricky and could be your problem with high idle rpm and over fuelling.
M 1.3, also shows, Knock sensor 006 and, OS. 078.
I’m not totally familiar with Peugeot,s arrangement, so don’t take the part numbers as gospel.

Hope this maybe of some help.

Regards

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thanuttiscotsman
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Post by thanuttiscotsman » Fri May 15, 2009 9:44 pm

when i bought the 354 ecu from ebay 'the one i sold to viktor' i was told it was for engines whith cat but without the knock sensor.

rossco
1989 BX 16v ph1 Big project chipped, k+N, scorpion s/s, weber throttle body, Nitrous injection

1990 BX 16v ph2 (now scrapped)

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Post by prm » Fri May 15, 2009 10:09 pm

Rossco, the 354 could have been quite correct for a 16v – late models.

Viewing the layout of 354, when compared to Viktor’s 88 EM components. I feel the loom would require quite a few alterations to adapt to the OE engine set-up.

I’m sure ??? his car has had a mid life change, not quite sure why.
But, you never know what Citroen may have got up to.

Regards

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Viktor
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Post by Viktor » Sun May 17, 2009 2:25 pm

hello. i'm back :) will post photos a bit latter . this weekend tried to remove not working A/C (generator belt is changet some time ago to shorter one) (pump is dead) but couldn't screwout two bolts becaus dont have proper tools :( so hope to finis demontation this week... allso A/C radiator is removed , and that curent cooling radiator (from opel corsa) is a bit leaking :( so now will start looking fro new one that would fit to original place + free space from ac radiator :)

this week will try also to test ecu slots pinout ... i have autodata and tehre is m1.3 pinout and guide how to test all of the sensors ...

p.s. what is CAS and CTS
bx 1988 12. 1.9l gti 16v

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Sun May 17, 2009 3:41 pm

AC compressor bolts should not need a special tool, they are something like Torx T40 in the head and a regular 22mm(ish) spanner on the outside of the bolt head. Also, the 5 piston sanden pump rarely fails outright, it is likely a fault with the clutch (for which there is a service kit) or a refrigerant fault. Though perhaps AC in Lithuania is as useful as it is here in the cold and rain?

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Viktor
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Post by Viktor » Sun May 17, 2009 4:00 pm

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bx 1988 12. 1.9l gti 16v

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mechuccio
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Post by mechuccio » Sun May 17, 2009 6:31 pm

thanuttiscotsman wrote:when i bought the 354 ecu from ebay 'the one i sold to viktor' i was told it was for engines whith cat but without the knock sensor.

rossco
I've got a phase2 without cat but with a knock sensor, fitted with a 354.

I'm wondering if the engineers at PSA had a clue what components where fitted in what BXes in the last years :lol:

By the way my ORGA number (5067) tells me that it was made october 2nd 1990.
You can't spell slaughter without laughter ->I just love my 16V<-

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Sun May 17, 2009 8:06 pm

Mine is a 354 no CAT and with a knock sensor, but i know that it is possible to turn on the Cat facility with the correct map.

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Post by prm » Sun May 17, 2009 10:14 pm

Viktor, sorry to diverge on your thread.

Vanny – as your into mapping?? ( Is that contagious )

Is it possible to remap a 114 ECU to function on 100 octane.
From the point of improving the performance further. Would there be any benefit? Currently running std. ECU on that type of fuel. No cat or dog/knock.

There’s very little difference in top speed, 5-6 mph, possibly, but certainly pulls in 2nd and 3rd if you keep the revs above 3500.
Will time the 0-60 when I finally finish my kick-down mod.

Regards

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